Brand Jam



Jaynee Dykes

Jamming brand and SPAM


SCOTT OXFORD 04.009 [music] Good day. I'm Scott Oxford. Welcome to Brand Jam, the podcast where we jam about brands because brand is our jam. Or is it brand ham today. And by ham, I mean a very special famous brand of ham we've all heard of one way or another. Today I'm jamming with my guest Jaynee Dykes from US-based global branded food company Hormel Foods International where she is senior brand manager for SPAM responsible for developing international strategy, creating and executing the marketing and advertising plans, and overseeing the annual operating plan for the SPAM brand. Just 20 years in CPG marketing - that's consumer packaged goods - and the last 15 of those have been focused on SPAM. So she is absolutely the queen of SPAM and I'm excited to ask her a whole lot of stuff around SPAM [and brand of?] food today.

SCOTT OXFORD 57.678 So to some, the name SPAM means a type of unwanted email. That's a reality. A lot of us know that. But to others, it's a staple protein of their diet. And for me, it's something that brings back these beautiful memories. Whether they're true or not, I'm not sure, but they bring me back memories of my grandparents and the fact that they had a depression mentality. And they would buy tinned food for us whenever it was on special or whenever they thought we needed it and SPAM was definitely among that. So it's been a part of my childhood and part of my history.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:25.999 It was invented in the year the Golden Gate Bridge was completed. Wow. SPAM is a brand that has endured and I look forward to a delicious, dare I say it, spicy, and savoury discussion on that today. And yes, I am hamming it up today. So until COVID, Jaynee was based in Shanghai, but she comes to us now from New York. Welcome, Jaynee. I am so excited to be jamming with you today.

JAYNEE DYKES 01:50.878 Hi, Scott. Thank you for having me. It's definitely a pleasure to be here on the Brand Jam.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:56.100 So when we first talked, you mentioned that you really missed living in China. That must be an amazing country to sell brands in let alone to live in and work in. Why were you in China, and what was it like selling brands there?

JAYNEE DYKES 02:13.489 Well, I was based in China because of the SPAM brand. We had recently opened up a [new?] manufacturer facility in China for the Chinese population. And I was given the opportunity to head to Asia to really focus in on where the core territory of the SPAM business is for our international division. So I moved there about two years ago. Spent a year and a half there before COVID unfortunately hit, but it was a great opportunity. It was amazing to watch new and old brands come in and out of that market every day. I felt like every time I was going to a convenience store, I was seeing something new. It was very exciting, very dynamic, and it was just a great experience coming from a small country town where Hormel Foods headquarter is in Austin, Minnesota to the big city of Shanghai. It was incredible.

SCOTT OXFORD 03:09.826 Yeah, Shanghai is amazing. I've been there once. I went on a trade mission in 2002, so a long time ago in preparation for the Bejing Olympics. And at the time, brand was really just starting to happen particularly American brand and [western?] brand, so certainly US-- well, international fashion brands, but US staple names now like KFC, Kentucky Fried, and McDonald's and the like. And what was so fascinating at the time too was that there was all of these local rip-offs as well. So [there was?] like they just changed a couple of letters in the name, you know? There was [McConkey?], I think, which looked like McDonald's but was sort of slightly different and the same. And yeah, it seemed to be just an opening up at the time. And obviously, an Olympics just changes everything. But again now you've got products there that you're introducing as you're saying as seeing sort of brands just erupting. And what a massive, amazing city, hey, just the millions and millions and millions of people that just live there and then flow into it every day for work? It's incredible.

JAYNEE DYKES 04:14.093 Yes. It's incredible. It was definitely an experience of culture and amazing food culture. But everything as you're saying, I mean, fashion and-- it was just constantly on the move. And if you would leave for four weeks for a business trip and come back I felt like one part of the city would be different, so.

SCOTT OXFORD 04:35.711 New skyscrapers have gone up or something like that. Suddenly they just have risen up. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 04:39.182 Yes. Something was torn down and something was going up. It was just always, always a revolving door.

SCOTT OXFORD 04:46.012 Yeah. So I have a number of clients who are managing brands into China at the moment. And we, as a country, are experiencing some agitation with the Chinese. There's [laughter] a whole lot of sanctions and restrictions happening on us at the moment. How do you find managing a brand back into China? I guess having spent time there it makes it easier. But it sounds like it's one of the more interesting and exciting and growing markets that you have.

JAYNEE DYKES 05:15.042 Definitely. So when I first started in the international division over seven years ago, we were exporting products, SPAM products from the United States to China. And unfortunately, we were kicked out twice. And so as you can imagine, it was a great test market. We knew that we had great potential. But we kept getting-- our business kept getting stopped. So at one point, our management decided that if we were going to make this a substantial business we needed to actually have our own facility there. And because of the long-standing relationships with the local Chinese government as well as our own rates, reputation as an American food company, we were able to establish a new production facility, state-of-the-art, something we're very, very proud of. But that was built about five years ago. And then we brought in the SPAM brand to actually locally produce in China which has made a world of difference. And our local team is actually doing all of the marketing and sales of the product. And again, localising the product, not so much the formula, the formula is exactly what it would be like in the United States, but localising it for recipes and the communication touchpoints. That has what has made the difference now that it's not an American from the Midwest trying to market SPAM in China. It's now being produced and marketed locally.

SCOTT OXFORD 06:44.446 Yeah. I mean, that's a really interesting question. You manage the international portfolio. So you are working in these different territories. Yeah. China is very specific and very culturally specific. I imagine a lot of the markets would be. What are some of the other-- I mean, Australia is a market for you as well. How do we or other western markets differ from say the Asian market?

JAYNEE DYKES 07:08.400 Yes. So the western markets have been in-- we've been selling to western markets since really the beginning of our international division which has just celebrated 50 years. So we're 51 years old within Hormel Foods. So if you can imagine, if you took what we sold in America 50 years ago and we just started shipping it abroad to our western allied countries. And what we realised in the not-so-distant past is that we needed to localise these products. And we needed to start talking in the local language and start putting recipes in the local repertoire of what you would cook.

SCOTT OXFORD 07:50.244 Yeah, the stuff that we're used to. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 07:52.421 Yeah. So that's really what we've been working on in the last 15 years really is how can we change the way that we are going to market to better meet the needs of our consumers. So as you ask about Australia, we have a slightly different formula than the United States. We talk in your language, which is a version of English. [laughter] And we have recipes that would meet the desires of the Australian consumer. So how is that different than the Asian markets? Well, you are pretty much-- the Western markets are pretty much alike. Really, nobody eats spam anymore but a lot of people eat spam, so they're just the closet spam [consumer?]. But the Asians, they're proud of it. They're proud to eat spam because that is what they have grown up with. That meets their taste profile with their rice, and their vegetables, and maybe their fish. Where I think the Western market's expanded a lot faster in prepared goods, or fresh goods, or the ability to buy fresh meat verse those Asian markets. So I think that's where the biggest differences are. We still have a large business in Australia, but again, no different than the UK or Canada where we're seeing the insurgence of spam or the growth of spam really coming from the Asian populations moving into your countries.

SCOTT OXFORD 09:20.352 Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I hit the supermarket couple of nights ago and bought a couple of tins. It was easy to find and there was heaps on the shelf. Clearly, it's a product that sells. It may not have been going in my trolley, but-- well, it did this week. And I opened a can yesterday and everyone at the office, everyone around the agency was just like, "If only we had some bread and some cheese. We want to do some toasted sandwiches," which I don't know if that's-- I doubt that's an Asian thing. It certainly may not be a particularly American thing either. But making a cheese toastie over here, throw some ham in, was great. But for me, the flavour and the texture of it just took me back to my childhood in a beautiful way. And I think there's something really interesting about that because we're quite-- I'm a Gen X and a lot of us who grew up in the '70s, we love some of those quaint little things that used to get eaten in the '70s over here. This thing called pigs in blankets which is basically like prosciutto and-- pigs in blanket is I think a prune and some ham wrapped around it, these sort of funny things that everything old is new again. And I think that's the thing about a product like that is it's endured for so long, it clearly has the potential to take on a whole new generation and be something new, because as you say, it's about a flavour profile, so. I hadn't thought about that, particularly with the Asian flavour profiles and the type of eating because putting that sort of protein in a regular meal, it's such a convenient, easy way to do it.

JAYNEE DYKES 11:01.568 Definitely. And the Japanese have always said it is a-- the meat is already seasoned. You don't need to do anything else to it. You take it out of your pantry and it's ready to go. So there's no additional thought that you have to put into it or any additional prep you have to put into it before they add it just to their relatively bland diet. So it really makes that flavour pop.

SCOTT OXFORD 11:24.496 Yeah. And look, dispelling the big myth about it too is it's actually got quite-- it's a really clean product. There's very minimal ingredients and they're all very natural. So I don't know why I didn't particularly think otherwise. But yeah, it may not be ham sliced off the bone, but it's certainly a lot more convenient, and a lot easier, and a lot more affordable as well to that, so.

JAYNEE DYKES 11:51.043 Yes. And I think a lot of consumers have that question about what is in spam? There has to be a lot of things in it to make it last forever on the shelf. We do have a three-year shelf life and that is really due to the can itself, like a can of beans or can of baked beans that you would put on your pantry shelf. You wouldn't think twice about opening that up probably if it went past the expiration date that you didn't even know about because they're processed the exact same way.

SCOTT OXFORD 12:22.377 Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. Same with tin fish. I eat a lot of tin tuna and yeah, I don't think to look at how old it is. I just assume that it's can so it's fine, so.

JAYNEE DYKES 12:32.927 Yeah. But let me dispel one more myth, if I may, about--

SCOTT OXFORD 12:35.656 Please.

JAYNEE DYKES 12:36.148 --what's in spam. So the only formula change that we have made over the last 83 years is that we actually added a potato starch ingredient to the meat, and what this does is it holds the juice in when it's cooked in the can and the gel doesn't rise to the top. So I think a lot of people, and probably our age, Scott, when they opened it once upon a time when they were kids, they probably remembered seeing that gel on top of the meat, which was really gross and scary to people. What is that? Well, that's because there's no place for the juices to go, right, so it just rises to the top. Well, with this potato starch, it actually now keeps the moisture in the meat block and you get a lot less of that gel on top. So it's not as scary. You can do it. [laughter] You can do it out there.

SCOTT OXFORD 13:25.552 Absolutely. Food technology is amazing. Look, I think having spoken to a food technologist at length, I think people would be astounded at how many things don't seem to have been, for want of a better word, technologised. Their food technology is not a scary thing. There are some scary aspects of it, but yeah. So yeah, look, iconic brand. I mean, I think I know how it got its name, but tell me the story. How did spam get its name? It's a big part of the brand.

JAYNEE DYKES 14:02.781 Completely. And everyone wants to believe it stands for something. And right now, our latest marketing campaign is sizzle, pork, and mmm, which spells spam. But I guess originally how it was named was in 1936, they had developed the spam formula. And it comes from the sweet meat in the front shoulder of the pig that they just-- it was coming off in small chunks and they didn't want to waste it, so they created this kind of like baloney or a hot dog formula, right, and they wanted to put it in a can so when consumers opened the can, they could take out that meat block and put it right on two slices of bread for a sandwich. So they take this product into Jay Hormel who was a son of the founder of Hormel Foods. George A. Hormel is our founder and his son, Jay was having a New Year's Party for his friends, and he is the one who came up with the spam brand, the formula, and he said, "I'll give anyone that can come up with a name for this product $100." At that time in 1936, $100 is going to get you places, right?

SCOTT OXFORD 15:12.833 Yeah. Yeah, professional fees almost for a naming project.

JAYNEE DYKES 15:17.242 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So after a few cocktails, I'm sure, somebody came up with the combination of spiced ham. Not exactly what it is, even though there's no spices in the thing other than salt and sugar, but spiced ham became the name of how, we believe, the name was developed or created. But we really say spam stands for spam, just like oreo. There's no defining definition other than it's just delicious.

SCOTT OXFORD 15:50.102 Yeah, yeah. Well, the other one in my research I found that it's also shoulders of pork and ham, which is funny because pork and ham are the same thing. But you did say it was from the shoulder. And I love the fact that that was about minimising waste as well. The problem came out. I don't know if I'm telling this story accurately. But you'd be familiar with Bailey's Irish Cream. You'd have that. Yeah. But apparently, Bailey's came about because the advent of skim milk meant that there was too much cream. And so they had cream lying around and wanted to do something with it. They created that product to use up all the cream. And apparently, now Bailey's now [laughter] uses so much cream that there's a surplus of skim milk. [laughter] So it's funny. It's about creating a demand. But a product comes to be and then I just think-- I always love to imagine whether somebody invents a product like that and can imagine the life that it would have because even if we-- even if we avoid this whole question of spam email, I love the fact that Monty Python, the British Monty Python came up with this skit that put SPAM to a whole new level. It's like any brand that becomes-- it's like today. It might be Jay-Z putting a brand name into a song. It's the equivalent to that really, isn't it?

JAYNEE DYKES 17:16.686 Yes.

SCOTT OXFORD 17:17.347 You're sort of entering the new zeitgeist in a new way. What did the Monty Python sketch, and I'll make sure there's a link to that in the show notes [laughter] for anyone who wants to give-- who hasn't seen it, who wants to go and have a look. But what does looking back on the history of it, what does the-- how does the Monty Python sketch rate for you guys as owners of the brand?

JAYNEE DYKES 17:38.811 I really didn't ever have a connection with anyone that worked on the brand back in those days when it came to be. And I could only imagine the brand manager being-- their mind being blown like, "Oh, my gosh. Did you just see that? How incredible. Our brand name was just used 5,000 in 30 seconds." I mean, it was amazing. So actually, it has came to be-- it's an area in our museum that we still focus on today with this great history. But it also evolved into this Spamalot musical that's been in theatres for almost 10 years now all over the world. So this relationship from what was just a skit has really turned into something that has evolved for both brands. And they have taken it from a skit to a Broadway musical play. And the SPAM brand has been able to really just enjoy what came from it. And that is it has been in a lot of people's homes, just those words of, "SPAM, SPAM, SPAM, SPAM," I mean, just--

SCOTT OXFORD 18:48.230 Yeah. It gets in your head. You can't get it out. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 18:50.224 Yeah. Exactly. And maybe not everyone has tried it because of it. But people know it because of it.

SCOTT OXFORD 18:57.421 Yeah. Well, I remember when The Book of Mormon came out which is not exactly something the Mormons [laughter] would see as being particularly Mormon. They actually went, "You know what? They're putting our name out there." And I know when it hit Brisbane the local Mormons bought billboards and were out in force and were like, "You've seen the musical. And now come and find out what we're really like." And it's like these things can be a win/win, it's about-- and there was a thing. I went back and looked at it and I was like, "Yeah. Monty Python didn't denigrate the product." They weren't doing that at all. And that's exactly it. And that's that funny story of sort of how-- it's funny that spam email comes less from SPAM, the product, and more from the Monty Python sketch and the way the actual sketch played out and just that sheer repetition. And so it's actually somewhat in my mind irrelevant to your product at all because it was more about the mechanics of a sketch and the repeating of a word that could have been any word. Had it been MILO which is a product we have here [inaudible], product we have here. It would have been MILO, MILO, MILO, MILO, MILO. That has nothing to do with the product. It actually has to do with the way the sketch worked. And I don't know, I'm just-- it's funny, isn't it, that then your product became I mean, such a-- well, you've got the iconic product but that's just such an odd coin of phrase that we've all got. And interestingly in my mind, my mind separates the two.

JAYNEE DYKES 20:30.823 Correct. Yeah.

SCOTT OXFORD 20:32.762 You never think about your product when you think about the spam email. And when I think about your product I never think about email. So I don't know. I'm just interested in the dynamics of brand. And for me, it's all of those subliminals and how it works in those associations and I think-- I certainly, if there were tins of SPAM piled up in the merchandise section of the foyer of the theatre where Spamalot was playing or a show bag that I could buy like a goodie bag full of it, I would have done it. Totally.

JAYNEE DYKES 20:59.791 Yeah. Cool.

SCOTT OXFORD 21:00.891 I love taking those tins in your side of the office. And basically for afternoon tea, I sliced it up and took it around. And our resident vegan wasn't in the office at the time. So she didn't [laughter] need to decline. But yeah, it was-- everybody partook and enjoyed it. And like as I said, we just had the regret that we didn't have our cheese and bread to make the toasty. So that's what's going to happen this afternoon, so.

JAYNEE DYKES 21:29.291 Certainly. So my question is did you fry it? Did you fry it in a pan?

SCOTT OXFORD 21:33.294 Not yet. But apparently, that's what everyone said to me. They said, "It's awesome when it's fried." So that's the deal. So today we're going to-- we'll probably do the toasties and tomorrow-- I bought a few tins. So tomorrow we'll fry it. I'm going to have the whole experience and take it back. Because interestingly, most people just said, "Oh, it tastes like luncheon meat and luncheon--" which is exactly what it is but that's what-- and in Australia, they used to sell that in a long sausage sort of about yay big, foot-long that was sort of plastic and it had that shrink tie on either end, the little, little tie. So and you'd slightly cut it off in slices, so yeah, very, very similar. And there were other sort of versions of it but obviously, competitors back in the '70s and '80s. But you mentioned a museum SPAM Museum. Tell me about that.

JAYNEE DYKES 22:26.168 Yes. So we've just erected our third SPAM Museum over the last 20 years, I believe.

SCOTT OXFORD 22:32.858 You're like Disney.

JAYNEE DYKES 22:33.740 It was kind of that-- sorry?

SCOTT OXFORD 22:34.919 You're like Disney. You're setting them up all over the [inaudible]. [laughter]

JAYNEE DYKES 22:38.347 No. No. No. So this was the third one in our town. We've just continued to build bigger ones in more--

SCOTT OXFORD 22:43.780 Oh, cool.

JAYNEE DYKES 22:45.626 Just you have to keep them fresh and you have to keep them modern and keep the content in it-- obviously, the history doesn't change. But the evolution of now where we are today versus where we started 20 years ago is so significantly different. Our international presence is so much bigger today than it ever was. So we have this beautiful 14,000 square-foot SPAM Museum. You can see our latest advertising from all around the world. You can go through the international area where it features some of our key territories, Australia being one of them with the big Ayers Rock and, of course, a koala and the boomerang to make sure people really get the full Australian experience. Then you can go into a booth of the UK. And it's called The Flying Pig because it's definitely a pub where you learn all about SPAM in the UK. And then you go down and go to the Philippines and see the latest advertising. But also we have the history of Hormel Foods that we started as a meatpacking plant and the other introductions to some of our very key iconic brands as well. And then there's a World War II section talking about how SPAM was used not only to feed the GIs, the US GIs and our allied troops but also those civilians that were, unfortunately, were in those ravaged war-torn areas that didn't have access to fresh meat or meat at all. And luckily, SPAM had already been in a tin. It wasn't developed for the war. And a lot of people think that. But it served a great need during the war because it went to those island countries that didn't even have electricity or fresh meat. So it worked out really well for everyone involved. We also have an area where you can pack SPAM like you are working at the production line. And you can compete against a friend. And that's what we mainly do. But you also can compete against how many cans are being made at the plant at the exact same time.

SCOTT OXFORD 24:51.084 Same time. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 24:52.205 It's just incredible. So we also have a kid's play area. So kids can get into the SPAM Museum and have a great experience interacting, having something to do and wear off a little bit of energy. But we have a house where they can go in and play in the kitchen. And, of course, there are slices of SPAM that they can grill up on the barbies. So that's really fun, too.

SCOTT OXFORD 25:12.581 Yeah, so I love-- that's all about brand story. And your category is branded food. And that means it's food with a story. So it's food that has a story to tell and that's-- it's such an important part of that. For those who can't visit, how is your-- how do you tell that story sort of in other ways? Obviously, you've got SPAMalot doing [laughter] it in theatres, not really. But how else do you just sort of keep that story alive and I guess, too, just the bigger picture of the role of story in branded foods?

JAYNEE DYKES 25:49.555 Yeah. So how we keep the SPAM brand story alive is we have this story being told on our websites. And we have a website for Australia specifically at where consumers can go and learn about the different varieties that we have in market, all of the different recipes, have a lot of international recipes but also Australia-specific. And then we do talk about the museum and give a little virtual tour but also about that history and timeline of the SPAM brand that is so rich in heritage and has a lot of meaning to a lot of people around the world. It's [really?] that brand story for any brand is so critically important. And we run into younger people that say, "Oh, the war was so long ago, it doesn't matter to me." And it doesn't matter to maybe this generation today, but it meant a lot to the generations that served in the war, the generations after it, that spam had a defined need for them. So I think the story changes and that's okay, right? What is important today won't be important in just 20 years. But as long as the story continues to evolve and what you're doing for your consumer is that how you're connecting with them is still so critically important as the evolution of the brand continued.

SCOTT OXFORD 27:09.882 Yeah. And look, on that note too is one of the things that I love to do as a strategic creative is to take a product and give it a whole new life, reposition it, give it that as Trump wanted to make America great again, making a product cool again or something like that. So how do you decide with products like this when and where to do that? Clearly, it's not an issue in Asia because it's a product going from strength to strength. But yeah, do you have markets where it's probably you go, "All right, in this particular country, it's time to show its relevance to a whole new generation."

JAYNEE DYKES 27:55.842 Right. So we have thought about definitely the generations. China, for example, they've had their own tin lunch meat for as long, they claim, is as old as the spam brand is. So it was about introducing the spam brand in a much more premium iconic that American heritage way comparatively to what their local brand was. And when we talked to consumers to make sure that we were understanding it accurately, why they were picking spam over their local brand, it was because the spam brand looked young and hip and modern. It was different than what grandma had served them. So it's definitely about that brand positioning and how do you want to be seen in the marketplace is what we learned in China at least was really impactful, making sure that it had that cool, hip vibe, right. So we're working with young influencers. We're trying to drive that premiumness and the reasons why they would want to pick us over their grandma's choice. And that is really what is making the difference in China for us. Now, for example, in the Philippines, it's our number one export market outside of the United States, but we hadn't advertised ever in the Philippines. So in this example, we were known and loved but we had never advertised. So how do you break through the clutter in just talking to consumers and trying to break through the clutter of all of the things that are going on, right, with billboards, and TV, and social media? How did we break through? So three or four years ago now, we created a boy band. It was all for spam. And we went out on TV with this boy band, and let me tell you, people stopped in their tracks like, "You mean the spam brand has their own boy band?" Now, so again, it's just you have to find that element of what you're trying to get accomplished and that targets that execution towards your end goal. And I still-- the boy band broke up, unfortunately. It was just a one-hit-wonder type group. And that's okay because that's what it was meant to do. So the joke constantly is, "So where's your next boy band going to be?" Yeah.

SCOTT OXFORD 30:17.464 Yeah. So I bet you have some secret interesting plans for, not another boy band, but something altogether new and fresh and interesting. [laughter] I think that's a huge amount of fun. And yeah, if you look back at those unintentional things like the Monty Python sketch as well and this incredible musical, there has to be a role that sort of played in that. And it's almost this-- even if there is just embracing some dagginess, embracing some-- it is what it is. And it's super-handy and super-fun and all of those kind of things so it's-- yeah. No. It's cool. And it must be great to work with a brand that has such a huge history and such a lot of story because there's no shortage of that. There's got to be aspects of the brand that aren't even true. In my mind, SPAM went to the moon. [laughter] Did it go to the moon? Did it go on a mission to the moon or into space or that just because I've just kind of gone there in my head or it was a-- what do they say? Brand is the conversations that have about you [laughter]-- that happen about you. So maybe [laughter] if that's what you want to believe then SPAM went to the moon.

JAYNEE DYKES 31:36.390 I'm not going to tell you no. [laughter] I mean, we all have dreams. And I would love to crush yours [laughter] that SPAM went to the moon. Yeah. [laughter]

SCOTT OXFORD 31:46.154 Nice, so I just-- interesting question, branded food is-- how did you get into that? Because you've been 15 years on SPAM. But before that, you were working with Hormel as well, weren't you, and across other brands as well or--?

JAYNEE DYKES 32:02.677 So when I joined Hormel just a little over 15 years ago I was working on a few other brands, Dinty Moore Beef Stew, Hormel Chili, a couple of our very-- again, they are a few years-- actually, the brands, those two brands are a few years older than SPAM. So they've been with Hormel a very long time. So yes, I had the great opportunity of working in the beverage industry before I came to Hormel. And that was very exciting working on cocktail mix strawberry daiquiris and margaritas. And then I moved into the food world because I wanted to work for a large Fortune 500 company that had great heritage and integrity. And our food safety is second to none. And that was what was really important to me. And I just so happened to start working on the SPAM brand shortly after I joined Hormel. And I never looked back. It was an amazing opportunity to work on the domestic business and to see that evolve as we launched new flavours and new packages of the SPAM product. But then when I moved into the international arena, my mind was blown because of all of the people that loved the brand in a much different way than what I had been exposed to in the United States. But as you mentioned, the brand's story-- sorry. As you mentioned, the brand's story, I had a colleague who was an introvert. And he was my counterpart on the SPAM brand. And I'm very much an extrovert. And I would wear a SPAM-branded shirt or I would carry a SPAM purse through the airport. And he would walk behind me. [laughter] I would get at least 6 to 12 interactions every time I walked through an airport because somebody had something to say to me about it. And it could have been good. It could have been bad. It rarely was indifferent. But someone had an opinion and someone had a story to share. And that is what I find so amazing about the SPAM brand. As you mentioned, a lot of people know about and for many reasons, right? But that connection that people have with the brand is so powerful. And I haven't met many other brands that have that dynamic power.

SCOTT OXFORD 34:14.963 No. I agree. And look. It's okay for people not to like a certain type of food.

JAYNEE DYKES 34:19.154 Yeah. Sure.

SCOTT OXFORD 34:20.345 It's okay. I ask my 12-year-old daughter. I I said, I showed her the tins and-- well, she was with me when we went shopping. And I said, "Have you ever tried it?" And she goes, "Yes." And I said, "Oh." And she goes, "Oh, it's not to my taste." I think she said [laughter] something like that which is an odd thing.

JAYNEE DYKES 34:39.240 Very fair. Yeah.

SCOTT OXFORD 34:40.683 A way of her saying it. And it's like, "That's okay. You don't have to love it." That's food. Different people love it. But yeah, but everybody has a story. And the fact that she is aware of it, do you know what I mean?

JAYNEE DYKES 34:53.492 Yes.

SCOTT OXFORD 34:54.092 She's grown up in a house where it has not been a product-- sorry to say, it's not been a product on our shelf.

JAYNEE DYKES 34:57.982 That's okay.

SCOTT OXFORD 34:59.291 But she's aware of it. And it's been a part of her life probably through her grandparents. Her grandparents are in their 70s. And so that's entirely possible that that's where she experienced it. And there's also the other aspect, too, which is you can prepare something poorly or well, anything.

JAYNEE DYKES 35:17.487 Exactly.

SCOTT OXFORD 35:18.187 A great steak can be destroyed by the way you cook it. So if someone serves you up something then it's not necessarily great. But yeah, it is those-- it is those stories, those conversations that happen. And I think that's what sort of keeps it alive. And for me, I looked at the entire portfolio of products at Hormel. And SPAM's the only I recognised because it's possibly the only that's sold in Australia. Would that be fair to say?

JAYNEE DYKES 35:45.583 No. That's actually not fair to say. Our other large brand that we sell in Australia is the Stagg Chili brand. And it's not quite as big of sales as the SPAM brand in Australia. But it has been in the market for over 10 years, a very good eat out of the bowl chili. I think the way that they actually even advertise it is put it over noodles or over rice and it makes a very good, complete meal, just that hardy-- made with Australian beef, of course. So yes, it is the other brand that you might see. The next time you go to the store you might recognise it. But those are the two main items that we have in the Australian market.

SCOTT OXFORD 36:32.743 Yeah. And presumably, that's because your research with customers suggested that those were the products that were going to relate, so. And others are very parochially American. I looked at a range of the others and they are-- they do look to me, as an Australian, as they would be very specific to American tastes in the same way that other foods are very specific to an Asian taste, that kind of thing.

JAYNEE DYKES 36:53.294 Exactly. Exactly. And we do a lot of our business in fresh meat. Getting fresh meat to Australia isn't the most economical. But there's other reasons why we don't have a larger range in Australia but not for the lack of wanting or trying. But SPAM has always been our flagship brand in Australia for sure.

SCOTT OXFORD 37:14.930 Yeah. And I love the fact that you've no doubt evolved the packaging. But it still has-- it evokes a beautiful, American ideal kind of in terms of its colours and the-- it hasn't been corrupted along the way. And clearly, that's been very carefully managed. And speaking of carefully managed, you've been on this brand for 15 years. That's a testament to itself to the internal brand of this organisation that you're a part of. It's not only a product that you can really believe in, working with people that you can get excited about. And you know first-hand around areas of quality and food safety, all of those things that sort of matter. But clearly, it's something that's captured your heart. And for a brand to kind of do that, it's got to-- it's not just a job. The brand is obviously-- that internal brand is a huge thing. Can you tell me about that sort of culture that you get to work within all the time?

JAYNEE DYKES 38:17.193 Yes. So Hormel has an amazing culture of people with longevity at our company. It's very common for people have 30 to 40 years within an organisation, which is very uncommon these days. We're not job jumpers or company jumpers. But for me to have worked on the Spam brand for domestically and internationally. I also was in sales for a couple of years where I sold the brand. So that's where my 15 years comes in. So I was in three different divisions within the company, but always working on the Spam brand. And that really has evoked a lot of consistency, obviously, through brand management and being the brand's steward, but it also has allowed me to continue to build not only my intro resume, but my experience to continue to grow the Spam brand for the company. And I've been very fortunate, and not many other people, I don't think, can say that they've been on one of the brands for this amount of time, where some days it's grueling and I'd like to do something different, but I don't know what else, honestly, that I would want to do. That's how much passion and love I do have for the Spam brand, and it's been so amazing to watch it evolve, especially going to Asia and seeing it through a different lens, has really opened up my eyes to the world of possibilities of what we can do with this brand for the next 80 years to come. So I think that's what continues to drive me. It's a testament to Hormel's commitment to this brand, and yes, we're really excited about where we are today with it, because sadly, with the pandemic-- not sadly that we have a pandemic around the world, but thankfully, we have the Spam brand who's been there again and again and again, and this time it's no different, to make people feel comfort that they have a product in their home or in their pantry that they know that they can depend on.

SCOTT OXFORD 40:16.674 Yeah, absolutely. And it's protein and it's-- yeah, it's tasty. So as you say, I think you used the word "comfort", so it is comfort food, and I think that's it for us. All of the applications of it are around that comfort kind of space. So yeah, 15 years, that's pretty cool, and it does sound like an amazing company. I did some work with a company that was a similar age. They're actually a Caterpillar dealer, and they were [inaudible]. They had such a strong sense of family, I guess, in there, and it's not just the family that you are related to, it's the family that you work with. And yeah, when these people celebrate 30 or 40 years in the business, it's an incredible part of your life committed to one organisation, and it says a lot about that organisation. So there is more hamming on the Spam that we can do, but I want to dig into a few of my other questions as well that maybe tap into you. And I want to take it back to childhood and the question of either a brand that just captured-- that you remember capturing your heart and soul back then or when you first became aware of it. What's a brand you remember that took hold?

JAYNEE DYKES 41:40.045 So it was the Heinz ketchup brand, or the Heinz brand but ketchup specifically. So I was born and raised in a small country town outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where Heinz ketchup was manufactured. And I remember always having Heinz ketchup in our refrigerator, so that wasn't anything alarming. But it was when I would go into Pittsburgh to see a baseball game or to have that amazing experience just getting the opportunity to go into the city, we would arrive in and you would see the Heinz manufacturing facility. And it would have their logo, big Heinz logo in lights, and it was just something that I always remembered of being really special and that's kind of when you made it to the city. And I remember-- and I was probably in high school, prior to college, was saying, "I'm going to be the Heinz ketchup brand manager some day."

SCOTT OXFORD 42:37.478 Wow.

JAYNEE DYKES 42:38.041 Like why Heinz ketchup? Of all things on the planet? There was one variety, it came in a bunch of different sizes and bottles, but I just had this overwhelming desire to be the Heinz ketchup brand manager. So to me, that is something that has been very dear to my heart for years. Sadly, I would ask at restaurants if they had Heinz ketchup, and if they didn't, I wouldn't order anything that needed ketchup. I mean, that's how loyal I was to that brand.

SCOTT OXFORD 43:10.582 That's awesome. But it clearly became part of your story, because of those experiences early on. And it clearly took a place in your heart. And let's face it, who doesn't love ketchup, or as we call it in Australia, tomato sauce?

JAYNEE DYKES 43:26.076 Tomato sauce, yeah. Right.

SCOTT OXFORD 43:27.958 Yeah. But yeah, I know there was a time when I think one of my children wouldn't eat anything without tomato sauce on it. It was on-- or ketchup-- it was on everything. But it's more than that for you, isn't it? It's actually about the-- it's an icon. Every time you drove past, you went, "I'm going to do that." And I know for me as an ad man, I love writing TV commercials. I love writing creative, but I love TV commercials. They're just such a filmic way of bringing it all together. And I remember very, very early on, I would recreate TV commercials for dishwashing liquid and stuff like that. And it was kind of like the magic of it took hold very, very early, and so, like you say, is being-- being a brand manager is like, you just went, "That story is special to me. I want to steward it through. I want to be a part of it. I want to shape it." And that's the privilege, I find, getting involved with brands, where particularly where we're repositioning them, or helping them. My Background is a lot in behaviour change, and I love using all of that science to work with a brand that isn't trying to change a health behaviour or something like that, but trying to just get someone to think really differently about something, and so for you, especially, I think that a great thing to do to sort of go into places with this product and change people's minds, and open up new territory, so I can see why brand management became passionate really early. So you still use Heinz ketchup today?

JAYNEE DYKES 45:08.263 I do, I have it in my refrigerator. And just a quick story of Australia and Heinz ketchup, when I first saw it on the shelves, and it said Heinz tomato sauce, I just could not wait to tell my family about it.

SCOTT OXFORD 45:23.487 Well, the good news is that we love you Americans so much that we actually sell ketchup as well. So we did get there. It's just Australians were so parochial for so long that we just-- we sort of enjoyed that idea of it. But I think we wanted to-- we wanted to go to America and try it rather than have it here. It just didn't seem to make sense to us here. It wasn't part of our story. But we're a little bit more out of our comfort zones now, in Australia, I think, and we can do tomato sauce and ketchup at the same time. We can do both of them. Just, you mentioned stories, and I meant to ask you this before, you said everywhere you go, where someone sees Spam on your shirt or whatever, they have a story. Have you got a really beautiful story? Is there something that comes to mind, or just an example of a great story that you could tell us of-- that someone told you one day? Or is it just that they're a little bit magical because they're all related back to your brand?

JAYNEE DYKES 46:24.969 Well, definitely, they're all magical for many reasons. But you know what, I don't have one that stands out other than a fishing story. We received a lot of pictures of very large fish that were caught with Spam.

SCOTT OXFORD 46:40.667 Wow.

JAYNEE DYKES 46:41.549 But that's beside the point. Hey, whatever, whatever works. I'm thrilled for them. But every story really had that family connection in it. There was a lot of, my grandfather or my grandmother or-- but it was always around family time, and that special moment that brought the family together. And I think that was what makes Spam so special to me, is that even when I'm-- those were stories that were told to me, but even when I'm in focus groups and I'm listening to consumers talk about my brand, and they're saying, "Well, it was really special because we got to eat Spam when it was typhoon days." So the schools would be closed and they would have to stay at home during a typhoon, but it was really special to them because they could eat Spam then as a family. Or sometimes they would have it at their funeral dinner, when the family got together after a funeral. So I heard so many amazing stories about Spam, good and bad, but it always was about bringing the family together, and to me, that's magical.

SCOTT OXFORD 47:53.460 Yeah. That really reminds me of episode one of this series, my guest, Deb, who's English, she told me that they used to have these things called Vesta Curries, which was a pre=packaged rice curry. It had sort of freeze-dried peas and some protein in it. And it's probably not something that looks particularly appetizing, but it was something that, every Friday night, they had Vesta Curry, and it was just-- it was family time, and it was the essence of togetherness, and it was all of those. It's like for me, the greatest blessing of COVID and what I'll always remember from COVID is family time. It gave us time for-- I have three teenage children, and it gave us time to reconnect when life was conspiring to take us apart, and that is nothing could have done that like COVID did that and it's-- I think we've reached a point where we've got to start looking more and more of the blessings of it. We're certainly aware of the curses and the pain and the suffering. But as you say, it's a blessing for your product that you can be a blessing in that time. And it's one of those things. But yeah, I love that when brands find their way into our hearts and into our relationships in an honest way, in a way that's beautiful and honest and celebrates family. And yeah, that's--

JAYNEE DYKES 49:20.685 Yeah. It had nothing to do with advertising. It had everything to do with just being present at that time.

SCOTT OXFORD 49:26.813 Yeah, love it. Love it. So tell me about a brand today. What's a brand that you trust? I think trust incredible. As you say, when we first talked about SPAM as well there is that trustworthiness that comes from food safety and it comes from reliability and it comes from looking at the ingredients and not seeing scary things on it as well. But in terms of you away from SPAM, what's a brand that today that you trust? Tell me about it and why.

JAYNEE DYKES 49:57.603 Going away from the SPAM brand's really hard. [laughter]

SCOTT OXFORD 50:00.723 There is life beyond SPAM, darling, there is. [laughter]

JAYNEE DYKES 50:05.335 I can't remember that moment. [laughter]

SCOTT OXFORD 50:08.714 Just in your personal-- in your personal life.

JAYNEE DYKES 50:11.805 Does it have to be food even though we're--?

SCOTT OXFORD 50:14.152 No. It can be anything, any brand at all that you-- that you, Jody, trust and means a lot to you. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 50:20.652 Okay. So I'm going to actually go with the Jeep brand. And I am now a proud owner of my second Jeep. And I'm a Jeep Wrangler girl. I have not gone to the Rubicon or anything fancy. But the Jeep brand to me again has one of these longevities like the SPAM brand does. And it's been around for quite a long time. It has served our country really well in time of need, in time of struggle. But it also has become just a stable vehicle now in the United States. And from my travels around the world, I've noticed it probably in every country that I've been in. So it definitely has that America iconic vibe going for it as well. But what I really like about Jeep is that it is a very well-made vehicle. I am very trustworthy of it. Obviously, living in Pennsylvania, you need something that's compatible with snow and rain and all of the different terrains. But the other thing that I love about it is that it holds its value really well. And to me, that says it's a good brand that people trust, not just an owner but those out there as well looking for a used vehicle. And when I can buy a brand new vehicle for just about as much as I could buy a used one for, to me, that says a lot about a brand and the reputation that it has.

SCOTT OXFORD 51:54.033 Yeah. Absolutely, because that is not controlled by the company. That is entirely independent and it has to do with reputations. And as we've said, the conversations that are had about you and what sort of-- what people think and what they understand. So from a brand that you trust, and this may be the same answer, but is there one that you love, you absolutely adore? I know SPAM is that one. But is there one that [laughter]-- is there another brand?

JAYNEE DYKES 52:18.710 You picked it. [laughter]

SCOTT OXFORD 52:20.409 Is there another brand? Is there something in your life that you-- that you just love and why?

JAYNEE DYKES 52:25.899 Yes. And this is probably-- it's probably a little bit too superficial. But there is a brand that makes me happy every time I go to the grocery store. And I'm not a grocery store shopper. I mean, even though that's what I do and what I should be doing every day of the week is going to the grocery store, it-- literally, I just don't enjoy it. But when I go and look at the Oreo cookie product set at a grocery store. That makes me happy. Not only do I love it because I love to eat it, I also love what they have done for their brand. And they have exploded at least in the United States and a few of the countries around that I have travelled to.

SCOTT OXFORD 53:01.703 And here. We're seeing it here, too. Yeah.

JAYNEE DYKES 53:04.051 They have taken this little sandwich cookie and they have expanded it with very little effort. And I am so impressed with the work that they have done, the shelf space that they now carved out which is at least eight feet. Excuse me as I use my feet. But I'm just really impressed with this brand who've gone from a black and white cookie to now a colourful arrangement of taste and flavours and giving their consumers something to always be looking for the next new one.

SCOTT OXFORD 53:38.915 Yeah. Look. I agree. And again, my kids all-- it's their default. We have some iconic Australian biscuits that they've never really connected with. And there's just something about Oreo that has done that and it will-- were regularly given any chance they get they'll put one of that-- one of those into the trolley. And then yeah, so that's why I'm aware of how prevalent the range is but without diluting its brand at all.

JAYNEE DYKES 54:06.107 Exactly. And I still buy the iconic vanilla-filled chocolate cookie every time, every time. But I do love looking at what they've done. The other brand, now that I'm getting excited about this, is Peeps. Are you familiar with the marshmallow Peeps?

SCOTT OXFORD 54:24.055 No, I'm not. But we might have it here. I'm not sure. Tell me about it.

JAYNEE DYKES 54:29.813 So it's P-E-E-P-S. And it was the iconic-- iconic, I like how I just throw out this word now. It was the traditional Easter treat. And it was a little marshmallow, yellow-- it had yellow sugar on it. And it looked like a little duckling. And you could find it only at Easter time. And it then started to morph into other holidays. So then it turned into a little bunny face for Easter as well. And then it turned into Christmas trees or pumpkins or whatever for all of our holidays. It then turned into merchandising. And now it has turned into flavours in Oreos or flavours in cereal. I mean, it has just expanded over the last 15 years to something I've never-- I couldn't have ever imagined. And it's one of those things where people are like, "I know Peep. But I'm not going to eat it because it's gross." [laughter] And it's not gross. It's marshmallow and sugar. There's nothing bad about it, right? [laughter] But it's not something that [laughter]-- I don't know many people who love them. But I know a lot of people who know about what they've done. And to me, that is-- that is an amazing brand. It's taking it from just this one-time use to expanding it into so many-- into so many moments into people's lives.

SCOTT OXFORD 55:53.129 And isn't that fascinating when a brand can take ownership of a category like that? We were talking about Jeep before. People call things Jeeps even when they're not branded Jeep because they took [laughter] particularly the wartime Jeep, that iconic one. But over here the Band-Aid brand which is basically sticking plaster, we just call it a Band-Aid. It doesn't matter what brand it is. And so with what those guys did, Peeps took ownership of marshmallow basically. And so you basically put marshmallow in something and you put the brand on it. And then suddenly there's a royalty going back to Peeps because it's [laughter]-- I mean, it's got to be the right kind of marshmallow. But I think that's really sort of really-- a pretty kind of-- it's a crossover, you sort of-- you've really arrived when the world has attributed you to the right to take ownership of that and their conversations sort of talk about that. Just on the topic of conversations and customers, I just wanted to circle back to what you were saying. You mentioned focus groups before. And I think you're referring to focus groups in Asia that you were a part of. How do you find culturally-- because for us, Asian culture is very, very different to Australian culture. But America is very like us but also quite culturally different as well. How do you find customer research in these-- around brand in these different countries differs from Asia to Australia say and back to America? What are the key differences there?

JAYNEE DYKES 57:22.497 Really the key differences are getting people to talk. So a lot of Asian cultures, they don't want to be seen as boastful or putting attention on themselves or saying the wrong thing that maybe others don't agree with. And if you can imagine, the American is the exact opposite. We like to talk a lot. We have an opinion. We're going to share it. And so the moderator's role is just mind-blowing to me of how they know how to get brand's consumers to talk. So my first example of watching this unfold and it's such a cool question that you asked because I remember it distinctly, we were in China and everyone was sitting there stone-faced not saying a word. And the moderator just started literally pushing snacks at them. And we're not talking a little candy bar. I mean, I'm talking there were meat snacks and big dough buns and all of these things that these people are being forced to eat but it was-- once they broke bread together, and breaking bread is I know a little bit bigger than having a snack, but once they were able to start eating and relaxing and talking maybe even amongst themselves about the snack that they were eating, then they opened up. And they were happy to share their experiences. But that was the biggest difference I had noticed is just getting people to talk. And how do you get people to talk? And what is that commonality that makes people do that?

SCOTT OXFORD 58:58.597 Yeah. And in Australia, because I love research and I love groups, they're so great for formative research and I've written some of the most successful campaigns I've ever done in the research room because you're just seeing your customer before you. But we have about-- our room is half-- it's the equivalent to half the Asians and half the Americans. So half the room wants to own the entire conversation and the other half doesn't. And the moderator's job is to manage-- to rise up the quiet and to manage down the others and actually make sure some real stuff happens. And so groups are amazing. But do you guys ever do one on ones at all? Because I find one on ones, it can be sort of a powerful way even just one on one phone interviews, powerful way to sort of really dig into what someone's really thinking and what's really going on in them.

JAYNEE DYKES 59:50.978 We do do them, not as often as we probably should. We just conducted a research group of about 400 in the Philippines on one on one. And I'm waiting for those results. But it was around a specific topic. And they literally went to the consumer's homes, the respondent's homes to really talk in-depth about this topic. So we're really excited to see what that-- what the results are and to really get some key learnings from it for sure.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:19.070 Yeah. Super. That's cool. In your bag of experience, I want to delve into as a brand manager and as a marketer. What do you think is the biggest mistake let's say leaders make around brand?

JAYNEE DYKES 01:36.918 I think there can be a lot of mistakes made because we're too afraid to take a risk. And I can say that in the sense of courses or in the sense of trying a new platform. But the mistakes I think that I personally probably have made over the years is not being willing to step outside of the box and maybe spending a little bit more on something that I thought was a little bit too risky or trying a new platform because do you know what? The old was good and it's always worked. But what I'm finding is in this ever-changing, very fast-paced world we need to be comfortable in the very uncomfortable and we need to take those risks. If it is spending the money or if it is trying a new platform, that we need to be able to step out there and say, "It might not have worked as well as I had hoped but I learned from it." And I think that's what's so important is allowing ourselves to fail but knowing that we've learned something also is extremely empowering. So I think that's-- as leaders of brands, I think that is something I struggle with. And managing up to my managers, too, is to make-- making everyone aware that this could be risky but it also could have great reward.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:01:54.232 Absolutely. Every piece of advice from the biggest voices in the world on business tell us failure is essential to moving forward into success. Brené Brown, Simon Sinek, these people who have-- are research-based who are very smart and clever and are advising some of the top companies in the world are all saying you've got to take risks. And you've got to do that. In our own little realities it's such a challenge, isn't it?

JAYNEE DYKES 01:02:19.325 Yes.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:02:20.556 I'm a small business owner. So I know all too well how scary it is to take risks and to move into that territory. But yeah, the rewards are great. And I guess that's why we do customer research, isn't it? Because that often gives us the evidence to support why we're doing something unusual and different and you can't-- it doesn't lie. That research doesn't lie. If you've got a good, authentic moderator then it doesn't lie. Jody, I'm so sad to say we have just smashed an hour there. And I have one more question. And I think you've already answered it for me. So it's just the last question I always ask and that's aside-- well, I won't say aside from the brand you're working for now because-- but it's basically what is a dream brand that you've never worked on but want to? What would the dream brand be? And you said before you're working with your favourite brand. But what else aside from Heinz ketchup [laughter] and aside from SPAM?

JAYNEE DYKES 01:03:24.250 Oh, my gosh. Honestly, I don't think I have ever thought about this question. Isn't this crazy? I mean, since I was a kid and-- I wanted to work for the Heinz brand. I think it would be-- oh, my gosh, Scott. Tough question.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:03:40.617 I'm sorry.

JAYNEE DYKES 01:03:41.819 Dun, dun, dun. [laughter]

SCOTT OXFORD 01:03:43.038 You've never worked for Heinz, have you? You have not worked for Heinz?

JAYNEE DYKES 01:03:45.851 No. No. Honestly, when I got to Hormel and got into this business of this family business-- I mean, we are a large company that is run like a family business. Honestly, I haven't looked for a new job in 15 years. And who says that? Who ever says that?

SCOTT OXFORD 01:04:03.976 Someone who's happy says that, someone who's found their home.

JAYNEE DYKES 01:04:06.410 Yeah, apparently. Apparently. I do say I do have the greatest job within Hormel Foods. And I truly believe that. I get to do a lot of amazing things. And I get to meet a lot of amazing people. And I get to work with this iconic brand that has stood the test of time. And I have no doubt that it will continue on for another 80 years. But would another brand be? I don't know if it would be the World Wildlife Federation or something like that and something taking my passion and love for animals and giving back to the world I think would be something very-- something that I would have a strong desire to do maybe in my retirement. [laughter] But no, there really isn't a brand that stands out to me today to say, "That's what I want to do." I mean, I love what Oreo has done. I love the M&M's-type brand. Obviously, I love a lot of things with sugar in it. [laughter] So that is definitely something that-- those are some really cool brands that I think would be really fun to work on. But they're doing amazing things and I'm doing amazing things. So right now I think I'm going to continue focusing on what I'm doing. But maybe in the future, it would be more of that charity work of giving back to the world and the environment.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:05:25.082 Yeah. Love it. I've so enjoyed this, Jody. Thank you. You've been such a great sport. And yeah, and just reintroducing SPAM to my life and it's here to stay now. And my family and friends will not hear the end of it for a while. [laughter] But yeah, you truly have an iconic brand. And you've been around looking after it for long enough to say that you have a serious bit of ownership of that brand. So it's as much a part of you as you're a part of it. So congrats and thanks again.

JAYNEE DYKES 01:06:03.268 Thank you.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:06:03.857 And yeah, I am so glad to have met you.

JAYNEE DYKES 01:06:07.164 Thank you very much, Scott. It's been a lot of fun. And thank you for giving SPAM a shot again. [laughter] And we hope it does stay in the family pantry.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:06:16.555 Yes. And look. And if you are ever looking for an Aussie agency to do something totally radical and new I think you've found it, hey? Yeah? [crosstalk]? [laughter]

JAYNEE DYKES 01:06:24.523 Oh, yes. Yes. I'll give you a shout.

SCOTT OXFORD 01:06:26.807 So if you have a [laughter]-- yeah, absolutely. [laughter] You know where I am. [music] So thanks for joining us on Brand Jam today. If you have a burning question you'd like me to answer or there's-- you think there's someone like Jody, who we definitely should have as a guest or a category, head on over to and get a hold of me with the contact form. If you could subscribe to the podcast, please do. That looks good for me and helps me get my-- have nice guests to come on. And because brand lives in the conversations people have about us I'd love to finish Brand Jam with the words of my flawed hero, the ad man, Don Draper from Mad Men says, "If you don't like what's being said change the conversation." Catch you later. [music]